The country is abuzz with the debate over Waterboarding and whether or not it constitutes torture for our former "guests" (ie prisoners of war).
Excuse me, but they were enemy combatants, weren't they? We were trying to get information in the interest of saving American lives, weren't we?
I eagerly await the reports coming out of how many American lives were saved.
So, what's the problem? War is fought with the goal of killing or disabling your opponent to save your own country. What's the difference between shooting, bombing or waterboarding?
Our enemies have shown no interest in negotiation or ceasing hostilities. There are no treaties to be signed. Their only goal is the destruction of our way of life. When given no option of ending hostilities, what is the USA supposed to do; say "pretty please don't attack us again"?
Bullshit.
The only way that we are going to survive this is if we prove to be as much a bunch of maniacs as they are. That's what ended the cold war. Russia built up their defenses in response to our insane President (Reagan). Libya stopped with the terrorism when we bombed Quadaffi's home.
It's unfortunate, but some enemies only respect force. We cannot afford to take the higher road. This cannot be a nation of pussies. Any military leader that does not use every available weapon to defend their country is derilicting his duty and is guilty of treason. I work in New York City. When do we end this nonsense, when we get attacked again?
This "War On Terrorism" should have ended on September 12th, 2001; with a few well placed nuclear bombs taking out the caves in Afghanistan.
Why are we wasting money and American lives in a ground war when we have superior weaponry? Our enemies would certainly use anything at their disposal to destroy us.
End the debate now. Bush and Cheney did very little correct during the past 8 years. Waterboarding is on the short list of things they did right.
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19 comments:
Well, International politics is a bit more complicated than "bomb the bastards !". The attacks on Afghanistan were a tokenist attack on a "bad" Muslim country which could be easily defeated (don't politicians read their history books). Iraq was about oil. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi's yet the West still fawns over them (that black stuff again). Real lasting peace only comes from a higher moral stance, dialogue before vengeance, an acceptance of differences. Rounding up Non-Western men, labelling all of them enemy combatants, refusing to put them to trial, and yes, waterboarding,have only served to weaken the US case against those who would take our freedoms away. I lived in the UK through the IRA bombings, supported and funded by many in the US. I am thankful that talking has resulted in (near) peace. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Revenge and hate, on either side, only make the world a more dangerous place for all of us.
(Steve)
The problem is the institutionalization of torture. We have men who will do what is needed to protect us including violating the law. But we cannot permit the law to say torture is OK or we are no better than the Chinese, Taliban or other that shits on human rights....PS great blog sorry had to vent.
So does that mean we have to purge pardons for all those people who have been convicted of war crimes for waterboarding our guys? Or do we apply a lower moral standard to ourselves than we do to our enemies?
Yanqui twat
It is my understanding that the "enemy combatants" are NOT Iraqi. I agree that the war in Iraq is wrong and is only for Oil and money.
However, the "torture" inflicted on proven Al Queda operatives is needed.
Our moral compass must be put aside in this war, if we are ever to win it. It may be wrong, but it is justifiable given the threat we are facing.
Remember, these are the same bastards that videotape beheading American citizens. There is no reasoning with those types of animals, much like there was no reasoning with the Nazi's.
And yes, actually, ALL the 9-11 terrorists were Saudi's. And our deference to the Saudi's (especially after the first gulf war) is extremely troubling.
An Eye For Eye ?
Where does it end ??
If you were a U.S Soldier and got captured, should you be tortured ???
I could not disagree more with your short sighted reasoning. And I believe Most americans feel the same way I do... We do Torture.
Stick to music, yer politics on this one are ill informed neanderthal gump that allows us to continue rationalizing bombing the world to hell for the almighty dollar, and acting surprised when someone hits back. Fundamentalists of all stripes need to get lined up against a wall.
What if there was evidence that someone on Long Island was going to commit a terrorist act? Would it be ok for the suffolk county police to torture a few suspects to make sure it didn't happen?
If the only possibility for safety is to abandon our belief in liberty and our respect for human life, I'd rather the country be destroyed. Of course, heart disease and diabetes are a thousand times more of a risk to our future than terrorism. Should we start torturing Ronald McDonald?
Do you have examples or links to news of our soldiers being tortured. That has not been in any news i have read.
I live in New YorK City too. Remember now all the people we have bombed and killed under your logic shall have their right to revenge.
You have not suffered much in your life i can read.
As a vegetarian, I say: LET'S TORTURE RONALD MCDONALD & WATERBOARD THE BURGER KING!!!!!!
Well, many top military intelligence folks say torture doesn't work. Aside from that, it makes us look like savages that once again could give a crap about cooperating with international human rights and prisoner treatment protocols. It is made worse when we round up huge swaths of people that have no connection to any crime or insurgency because our techniques are so crude and our intelligence so bad that we have to trawl for whoever's there. We've destroyed Iraq and are about to blow Afghanistan to hell again, but Saudi Arabia arre our buddies! Hmmm.
Excellent post. As the saying goes: "All's fair in love and war"
The civilized world needs to wake up to the fact that we are at war with a very dangerous enemy (radical Islam or Islamism). We need to hit them and hit them hard.
"Fundamentalists of all stripes need to get lined up against a wall."
I guess the person who wrote that doesn't understand irony...
Dude, I'll never forget because I was fucking working in Building 5 that day, and on many levels I can never forgive what happened.
But I will never agree with setting aside everything that is supposed to represent what's great about America just to make a conflict a little easier on us. If you're willing to set aside our "moral compass" then you should just admit now you're no better than the fucks who attack and torture us.
If we allow ourselves to stoop to such primitive bullshit then what have we won?
I agree with what most of the anonymous people have said. Torture hasn't worked and will only anger the extremists more. Fair trials are the answer, not waterboarding. I shan't be visiting this blog any longer. Good day to you sir.
I agree with the anonymous people: torturing would only enrage the extremists and we didn't even torture the nazis, we put them on trial which is what we should do here.
These animals want to kill me and you and everyone we love. I tend to take that kind of personally.
I could care less if our g-men throw some water on em.
Waterboarding? To hell with all these candy-assed halfway measures. We ought to just nuke Mecca. That'll show the bastards.
While we're at we'll take out Tehran, Pyong Yang, Beijing & Moscow. Then we can get with our lives in peace.
Seriously, torture is for the weak. It's time to be show the world who's boss.
During WWI, WWII, Korea, the First Gulf War and many other armed struggles our brave soldiers have fought in, one thing was true: enemy soldier were quick to surrender to American Troops because they knew they would be treated humanely. This is no longer true, thanks to those who chose the path of the torturer. How many Americans will die from the desperate acts of dead-enders on the battlefield who fear inhumane treatment?
The United States has fought the most evil communist and fascist enemies without losing our moral compass.
Yet since 9/11 we have tossed away our counties reputation. Was it really worth it? Was the loss our our integrity necessary to defend against this enemy? Yes we lost more than 2,000 innocent men and women on 9/11, but is your fear really commensurate with the threat they pose? Or were your fears hijacked for another purpose?
The Levin report makes clear that the primary motive of the torture was to find evidence of a cooperative relationship between Saddam and Al Qaeda (not surprising since historically torture is used to gather false confessions rather than reliable information.)
The administration was desperate to justify their War.
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